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    Jesus taught that he would return at the destruction of Jerusalem.

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    birks10

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2009-02-15

    Jesus taught that he would return at the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Post  birks10 on Sun May 31, 2009 7:54 pm

    Hi Sinless,

    Thanks for writing and asking your question.
    The reason I did not respond to the challenge (?) that the author of the Anti-Preterist site posed, was because I have dealt with this person before, and he really was not interested in an answer from me as much as he just wanted to do a little "superiority posturing". However, i will be happy to answer your question as to this subject.

    The brief and most driect answer is found in following the context that leads to the Olivette Discourse in Mtt. 23:34 through ch. 24. In Mtt. 23:37-38, Jesus tells the Pharisees that their "house" is going to left desolate. This is understood by the disciples as a refernce to the temple, as they begin to show him the buldings of the temple as it was still under construction by Herod, in Mtt. 24:1. In V. 2, Jesus affirms that not one stone of the temple would be left upon another til it all is thrown down. Having understood clearly what Jesus was saying, they then ask him in V. 3, "when shall this happen", "and what shall be the sign of your coming (parousia) and the (consequential) end of the age?" Notice that the disciples tie in the destruction of the temple, (which meant the end of Mosaic Jewish ceremonialism), with the second coming and the consequential end of the age of Law. (A common Hebrew idiom stated by the phrase, "end of the age." Jesus then tells his disciples that they themselves would see all the events that lead up to and include the destruction of the temple which corresponds with the second coming. In Mtt. 24:15 he says that they would see the abomination of desolation, which Lk. 21:20 says is the armies (of Rome) that would surround and enter Jerusalem and abominate it by the presence of the pagan sacrifices and their idols inscribed on the Roman Standards. Moving quickly here, Jesus wraps it up in V. 35, where he states that "Heaven and Earth would pass away..." The phrase Heaven and Earth is used biblically as a reference in this context, to the temple and it's ceremonies. This was a common Jewish idiom for the Temple. They called it their "heavens and Earth." See Josephus as well many other Jewish scholars that use this phrase openly, both modern and ancient.

    This is a quick answer that will no doubt lead you to more questions. The best thing I can offer you is my recommendation for you to listen to my CD series called, "The Second Coming Series. You can download and listen to it for free on charlescoty.com

    Or, you can order the series through our ministry here on this website.

    The real question that has to be answered by all who still are holding a yet- future- to- us second coming, is , why is it that in every place where the second coming is spoken of, is it either stated directly or clearly implied that it would happen in the first century? Conversely, there exists no passage of scripture that teaches that it would happen at any time outside of the first century.

    Dr. B...

    sinless

    Posts : 5
    Join date : 2009-05-31

    Re: Jesus taught that he would return at the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Post  sinless on Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:45 pm

    Thanks.

    I had never before heard that "the heavens and the earth" was a reference to the temple. I'll check that out.

    Yes, I should buy the Second Coming Series. $40 is a relative lot of money. I'll have to save up. That will take some time. Yes, I saw that it is available for free download. Thanks.

    birks10

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2009-02-15

    Ref's for "Heavens and Earth."

    Post  birks10 on Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:05 pm

    Sinless....

    See Josephus, "Antiquities of the Jews", Pg. 75... J. Berman, "The Temple", Pg. 16...Abraham Cohen, "Everyman's Talmud", Pg. 30-32... Moses Maimonides, "Guide for the Perplexed", Pg. 204-209...Gary DeMar, "Last Days Madness", Pg. 488.

    Those should get you started.

    Dr. B...

    mrmoreau

    Posts : 1
    Join date : 2009-08-24

    So perplexed after listening to you on the Radio

    Post  mrmoreau on Mon Aug 24, 2009 8:46 pm

    So if the second coming of Jesus has already occured where are we now in the biblical timeline? Where is Jesus now? I always believed He would come in glory to judge the living and the dead and His kingdom would have no end. What's next?

    birks10

    Posts : 36
    Join date : 2009-02-15

    Re: Jesus taught that he would return at the destruction of Jerusalem.

    Post  birks10 on Fri Feb 24, 2012 12:37 am

    sinless...

    Concerning "where we are in the biblical timeline..." We are in the midst of what is described as the result phase of Rev. 21-22:1-6. The nations are coming into the church (New Jerusalem/bride of Christ (Rev. 21:1-2, 9-10) and the nations are streaming into it and are partaking of the leaves of the tree of life which heal (restore) the nations. This will continue until the consummation, when sin continues to come to an end. See my book, "The End of Sin."

    The power of the AD 70 second coming or parousia (presence) of Christ, is that he is here on the earth in the spiritual/heavenly realm, which is precisely what he came back to according to John 14:1-3. In the Olivette Discourse (Mt. 24, Mk. 13, Lk 21), Jesus in answering the disciples questions, and told them that the sign of his appearing would be the destruction of the temple (See Mt. 23:38-39 & 24:1-2, 34-35).

    The importance of this parousia in Ad 70, is that if Christians do not known that he is here, they will never live and act like he is, and will go on being spiritually hamstrung, not appropriating the benefits of his being here ruling and reigning. The futurist doctrine of us still waiting for Christ to return, is the by all and end all of most Christians focus. If you take that away from them, there form of Christianity is over. The focus is wrong. Instead of focusing on the importance of justification by faith, for instance, they focus on "the rapture". The parousia of Christ was the blessed hope of those alive in the first century. We live in the present fact of it. We rule with Christ now. Why is the world in the sinful shape it is in? Because Christians think that its all supposed to get worse before it gets better. We do not live and preach before the world as if Christ is here. We are still in the waiting room.

    Dr. B...

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