Home
In my head, I know that the things the Charis-magics call the spiritual gifts are no longer in operation today. I suppose that changed when John died, but as a result of the changes started in AD70. But I don't remember the scriptural support for that. Could you please address that?
2 posters
spiritual gifts
timmytheimpaler- Posts : 3
Join date : 2010-01-04
birks10- Posts : 36
Join date : 2009-02-15
Hi "timmy"....
I don't think the cessation of the revelation gifts (tongues, prophecy, word of wisdom, etc...), took place with the death of the apostle John. (Don't know any scripture that would point to that). Rather, their ceasing was predicted by Daniel (or the angel to Daniel) , in Dan. 9:24, where he says (in Hebrew) that "vision and 'the office' of prophet, would come to a "stop" as a result of the ministry of Christ, post ascension and prior to AD 70, during the transition period. Remember, Jesus said in Mtt. 11:13, that the law and the prophets (old cov.) were UNTIL John (the Baptist)...This is speaking of the Old cov. prophet which was a "foretelling" office as opposed to a NT office which was "forthtelling" one. 1 Cor. 14:3 says that a NT prophet was to speak concerning "edification exhortation and comfort." And that all the Corinthians could in fact "prophesy" in that way. (1 Cor. 14:31, Rev. 19:10) No predictive "foretelling" really involved. Outside of Agabus in the book of Acts, who predicted first a famine and then that Paul would be bound by the Jews when he went to Jerusalem, there isn't much evidence of the Old. Cov. office lasting too much into the transition period from AD 30 (approx.) to 70. Thus fulfilling the Dan. 9:24 passage concerning the stopping of that office. The lynch-pin explanation for these revelation gifts ceasing, is 1 Cor. 13:8-11, where Paul essentially compares "partial" revelation function of tongues, Prophecy (propositional and exhortative), with the "perfect" revelation of the scriptures. I supply a more detailed study of this in my book, "The Daniel Prophecy." I don't mean to sound like i'm hawking a book, but that's probably the better place to research that gives several pages of discussion as opposed to the brief response i'm giving you here. :>)
Dr. B...
I don't think the cessation of the revelation gifts (tongues, prophecy, word of wisdom, etc...), took place with the death of the apostle John. (Don't know any scripture that would point to that). Rather, their ceasing was predicted by Daniel (or the angel to Daniel) , in Dan. 9:24, where he says (in Hebrew) that "vision and 'the office' of prophet, would come to a "stop" as a result of the ministry of Christ, post ascension and prior to AD 70, during the transition period. Remember, Jesus said in Mtt. 11:13, that the law and the prophets (old cov.) were UNTIL John (the Baptist)...This is speaking of the Old cov. prophet which was a "foretelling" office as opposed to a NT office which was "forthtelling" one. 1 Cor. 14:3 says that a NT prophet was to speak concerning "edification exhortation and comfort." And that all the Corinthians could in fact "prophesy" in that way. (1 Cor. 14:31, Rev. 19:10) No predictive "foretelling" really involved. Outside of Agabus in the book of Acts, who predicted first a famine and then that Paul would be bound by the Jews when he went to Jerusalem, there isn't much evidence of the Old. Cov. office lasting too much into the transition period from AD 30 (approx.) to 70. Thus fulfilling the Dan. 9:24 passage concerning the stopping of that office. The lynch-pin explanation for these revelation gifts ceasing, is 1 Cor. 13:8-11, where Paul essentially compares "partial" revelation function of tongues, Prophecy (propositional and exhortative), with the "perfect" revelation of the scriptures. I supply a more detailed study of this in my book, "The Daniel Prophecy." I don't mean to sound like i'm hawking a book, but that's probably the better place to research that gives several pages of discussion as opposed to the brief response i'm giving you here. :>)
Dr. B...
birks10- Posts : 36
Join date : 2009-02-15
Concerning the charismata or gifts of the Spirit, I believe the scriptural support for the ceasing of "some" of the gifts (those being the revelation gifts), is to be found in 1 Cor. 13:8-11. There, Paul speaks of the gifts of prophecy, tongues, word of wisdom, as being for the immature in Christ and that they would "cease " to function when the "perfect" revelation was to come. The context makes it pretty clear that the perfect has to do with the perfect revelation of scripture. My position is that there is no more perfect revelation than the scriptures. What we might call the completed canon of the body of the Bible. There is actually no reason given in scripture to not believe that the other gifs (healing, discernment of spirits, etc) are not still in force. I believe they are.
Dr. B...
Dr. B...
|
|
|